To contribute to Nextcloud you must give away all your data to Microsoft first

Well “meta” seems to be the perfect matching category for this.

Has no one ever wondered? To participate in Nextcloud everybody is forced to register a Microsoft (GitHub) account first?

I’ve written some questions, bug reports and feature request here in the community forum the last couple of days. And always - more or less friendly - forced to write it on GitHub. If so, what is the point of this community forum when even discussions are led on GitHub?

And yes, we’re talking about the same Nextcloud that was campaigning a few days ago alongside with IONOS against US based companies affected by the CLOUD Act.

Sorry, but I do not have a Microsoft account. And also no Google- or Facebook- or LinkedIn- or Amazon Business-Account. And I won’t have one.

As solution I was recommended to use a fake email address. Great! But this guy completly missed the point. It’s not about the email. It’s about collecting behavioral data over a period of time.

Read Shoshana Zuboff’s book about Surveillance Capitalism! Then you would know how companies like MIcrosoft try to know everything, with whom I shared my thoughts, on what. Which projects and which software I use. They know my customers when they are connecting and sharing same repositories from their fixed IP addresses. Yes, Microsoft even knows when I get up in the morning and do my first checkout, or when I finish my day and do my last commit. Over weeks, months and years this is a amazing collection of data where even the gaps of no data are telling a story. Was this a vacation? a conference? or is somebody just fired?

@frank if you read this here, please consider your policy on this.
Now with IONOS as a partner, it should be easy to change your infrastructure and make your business truly open and independend from the US centric surveillance companies.

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well i recommended you to look for the fitting thread in this forum (as i knew there was one and as i found out you have been taken part in it, already) you seem to slightly unable to cope with it…

so here it is… with some interesting statements of nc regarding at least near future of nc-development.

well having teamed up with some big german hoster apparently doesn’t mean a thing as it seems to be neccessary to build a development-environment first which (maybe) could be hosted there.
PLUS: because it’s a germany based company everything will be good? they won’t grab all of your data from you just because they are located in germany? LOL.

  • bug reports belong to github. by logic. and by definition.
  • feature requests? sure you can post them here. but usually developpers are quite busy to find them here. though they do look here from time to time. but experience shows that they get attention faster if they are posted at github
  • questions? discussions? ya. please do so. and if a question would lead to a bug/issue it will go to github.

you definitly should work on a linuxmachine. :wink:

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There are no dedicated community repositories, everything is open and managed by Nextcloud GmBH. When github was acquired by Microsoft there was a longer thread here to move from grithub (a few independent apps use other repositories):

Unfortunately, the main developers and the company people are rarely on the forum to discuss this properly. You probably can reach them per Mail or at Hackathons or NC conferences in person.

Another problem could be that once the development is open, all your contributions will be visible and anyone could analyse them. Well, for a company that worries so much about your data and you can keep them safe and fully control them, it’s strange to have a different strategy for their development :wink:

also a bit related: Why does Nextcloud use GitHub and not have a GitLab instance?

Well, why does Nextcloud GmbH not just use an own gitea instance? Hosted in an EU datacenter of your choice? Maybe offering addon developers free repos and space aswell? GPG signed as it should be?

Does anybody remember a couple of months ago how devs from China were banned from GitHub? This could happen to Germans, French or other EU Citizens too.

If you really want to you could still mirror to GitHub.

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@jakobssystems

I get the idea and I always support every alternative to the big US internet giants like MS, Amazon and Google.
On the other hand, I assume that it would be a big effort to migrate from GIT to any other service, especially if it is a self-hosted one. Then again, I’m no GIT expert.
From a business perspective, it does not make sense to ditch GIT as long as Microsoft doesn’t mess with critical things (like manipulating source code or some sh*t like that). Correct me if I’m wrong, but the changes introduced by Microsoft so far have been mostly positive (I know, it’s MS, can’t trust em’).

Would Nextcloud have opted for GIT if it had already belonged to Microsoft back then? Probably not, but that’s up for speculations…

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Any deeper off the deep end and you’ll need some diving gear.

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Hell… I swear the thread appeared on my “latest” overview…:joy:

it would be a big effort to migrate

Not really, it took just a couple of minutes to mirror https://github.com/nextcloud/server with its 152 branches, 53299 commits and 581 releases to my instance. The issue tracker need some detail work, but basically a no-brainer aswell.

What it needs a little bit of scaling and balancing, but nothing really impossible if you own your own infrastructure or if you have some buddies at IONOS helping you in this matter.

it’s more about the toolchain around and the adjustments there.

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That’s what I meant, should have made it more clear.

Instead of moving the whole infrastructure at once, it could be interesting to do that just for an app to begin with. One app is easier to migrate, it is probably less critical and if the overall experience is good, it is possible to migrate the rest as well. Some apps are already on different platforms, it really depends on the developers of the apps.

I’ve just seen that gitea is also hosted on github and they try to move away: https://github.com/go-gitea/gitea/issues/1029 :smile:

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some App Devs already hosts their Apps on own or non GitHub instances. To name one: Sidemenu by Simon Vieille. Hosted on https://gitnet.fr/deblan/side_menu

There is a significant difference between signing up for an account and giving Microsoft “all your data.” If just having an account gets under your skin, you have a larger problem. MS is also one of the top contributors to the Linux kernel.

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One big problem with everybody having their own instance of a GIT repository server:

As long as there is no Single-Sign-On for all of these selfhosted services, it will put off potential contributors because they have to register an account on every instance out there. If lets say 50 app developers host their own instance and people want to contribute to these projects, they suddenly would have 50 more accounts to deal with just because they wanted to make a small contribution here and there. Instead of going through that hassle, they simply don’t contribute at all.

That is also one reason why almost all the development happens on Github and Gitlab. One way out of this would be some kind of federated system, but there is barely any progress on that with all the Git repository servers out there (like for Gitlab: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/issues/6468).

Aside from that, given that almost all development happens in the public sphere everyone can take a look at what time commits or other things happen on these repositories.

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Gitea supports Login with GitHub (or any other OAuth2 provider).

Which would make your account trackable again, right?

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Login with GitHub is a possible solution for the quoted problem. From my point it’s a simple way to allow contribution without registration.

Sorry not a valid argument.
gitea supports OAuth and OpenID.

I wonder that I need to mention this here: Only federated systems are the answer to centralized surveilance capitalism.

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lets recapitulate your suggestion:

We’re talking about how to move away from GitHub to reduce dependecies and avoid surveillance and you’re suggesting login with GitHub?

Mmmm…

These services have to be activated manually, otherwise only local accounts would be possible. So to make this more inviting to outsiders it would have to be enabled even before anything is commited/reported/posted, otherwise it would involve asking those who run the project to create an account or try to contact them using some 3rd party channel.

These services have to be activated manually,

Yes, that’s how Privacy by Design and Default works.

For instance I’ve locked down my instance and disabled any 3rd Party integration, even Gravatar. But of course there are others who need this. It would be absolutly reasonable if Nextcloud would enable this.