Forum performance: still a problem?

Hello everyone!
About 1 month ago, beginning of August, we made improvements to the performance of this forum. We would like to know if there are still people with serious performance issues on this forum? We would love to hear from you as we want to have this forum accessible to all!

Please let us know also your browser, location, if you are using vpn, and other relevant information, and also if your network is generally fast or slow.

Many thanks and I wish you a lovely day! :slight_smile:

7 Likes

from my feeling performance has improved (after update on Aug?). Overall feeling is still slow compared to other forums but much more stable now e.g. in the last weeks I didn’t had problem attaching pictures anymore (it was often the case previously)

3 Likes

Hello,

Forum has gone poor to bad for me. Here are my details,

Physical Location :- India (Kolkata)
Physical Location :- India (New Delhi)

ISP :- Mobile Carriers (4G LTE) - 1. Reliance Jio || 2. AirTel
ISP :- Broadband (Fiber to Home). Speed 250 mbps (Tried multiple ISPs, Jio / AirTel / FusionNet / Meghbela Broadband / Aliance / ACT Fiber

OS :- Windows 10 / 11 (Server 22), Ubuntu 20 / 22
Browser :- Edge / Chrome / Firefox (both x86 desktop and Android Mobile)

Everything is with default configuration as their default installation.

VPN :- None

DNS :- Tried ISP given ones and public servers like OpenDNS / Google or Cloudflare

Result is same. Forum is extremely slow for the first load. It takes like ages to load for the first time. But since a TAB is open, it runs somewhat OK for next tabs and pages. Often assets of the page wont open properly.

In past few days, the performance has gone down further.

Thanks.

1 Like

could you please post traceroute-informations on both of your ISP-connects?

2 Likes

Hello,

Here are the trace routes as requested

1. Location (Kolkata, India) / ISP Fiber to Home (Meghbela Cable Broadband)

Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.22000.918]
(c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Windows\system32>tracert help.nextcloud.com

Tracing route to help.nextcloud.com [95.217.53.146]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2     3 ms     3 ms     3 ms  45.123.xxx.xxx
  3     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  4     2 ms     2 ms     2 ms  10.240.246.1
  5     3 ms     3 ms     2 ms  10.200.22.1
  6     3 ms     2 ms     2 ms  14.143.172.25.static-Kolkatta.vsnl.net.in [14.143.172.25]
  7    41 ms    41 ms    41 ms  172.28.162.209
  8    41 ms    41 ms    41 ms  ix-ae-1-100.tcore2.mlv-mumbai.as6453.net [180.87.39.25]
  9   158 ms   158 ms     *     if-ae-2-2.tcore1.mlv-mumbai.as6453.net [180.87.38.1]
 10     *        *      159 ms  if-be-6-2.ecore1.emrs2-marseille.as6453.net [195.219.174.16]
 11   155 ms     *      155 ms  if-be-2-2.ecore2.emrs2-marseille.as6453.net [195.219.174.70]
 12     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 13   165 ms   164 ms     *     if-ae-4-2.tcore1.fr0-frankfurt.as6453.net [195.219.87.18]
 14   184 ms   185 ms   185 ms  s5.nextcloud.com [95.216.247.163]
 15   179 ms   179 ms   226 ms  help.nextcloud.com [95.217.53.146]

Trace complete.

C:\Windows\system32>

2. Location (New Delhi, India) / ISP Fiber to Home (FusionNet Cable Broadband)

Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.22000.918]
(c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Windows\system32>tracert help.nextcloud.com

Tracing route to help.nextcloud.com [95.217.53.146]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

  1    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  192.168.1.1
  2     2 ms     3 ms     3 ms  45.122.xxx.xxx
  3     *        *        *     Request timed out.
  4     2 ms     2 ms     2 ms  172.22.22.53
  5     2 ms     2 ms     2 ms  172.22.22.89
  6     4 ms     4 ms     4 ms  219.65.112.181.static-delhi.vsnl.net.in [219.65.112.181]
  7    26 ms    26 ms    26 ms  172.23.183.134
  8    34 ms    36 ms    40 ms  ix-ae-0-100.tcore1.mlv-mumbai.as6453.net [180.87.38.5]
  9     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 10   149 ms     *        *     if-be-2-2.ecore2.emrs2-marseille.as6453.net [195.219.174.70]
 11   149 ms     *        *     if-ae-50-2.tcore2.fnm-frankfurt.as6453.net [195.219.87.214]
 12     *        *        *     Request timed out.
 13   167 ms   166 ms   166 ms  ex9k2.dc2.hel1.hetzner.com [213.239.224.142]
 14   154 ms   155 ms   154 ms  s5.nextcloud.com [95.216.247.163]
 15   169 ms   170 ms   186 ms  help.nextcloud.com [95.217.53.146]

Trace complete.

C:\Windows\system32>

Thanks.

1 Like

There is also this cool snippet to check what part of the communication is taking long:

@NaXal for the traceroute, I did the other way from a hetzner host to the last public ip, it’s also going through TATA network (as6453) Frankfurt → Amsterdam/London, similar response time.

If you use TorBrowser, does it get better?

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Much better for me at least.

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Really better for me

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Takes forever to open a new thread in Firefox especially when opening links from search. A bit better with Chrome but I don’t use it

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Any chance you could provide the details from the main start post? We can then try to see if there are patterns with other users who have problems. Thank you! :slight_smile:

Use a few Discourse forums and this one seems fine.

1 Like

Just to write down some numbers: according to Firefox F12 it takes 2.56s for initial page load of help.nextcloud.com in “private” window with “no cache” ticked.

I don’t see any specific resource taking very long time… some missing fonts (at the end).

slowest request is “/” with 633ms total and 543ms of “waiting”

quick check for other requests shows same pattern - almost every request has pretty long “waiting” phase - most of them 100-200ms

judge yourself if this is slow or not. From my feeling the site is slower than others but nothing I can’t live with it

tested from (Switzerland, Swisscom VDSL 100/150MBit/s, Firefox, Windows 10, core i7 11th Gen

2 Likes

I saw this thread title come up in an email, it’s the email that taunts me as I’d like to click on the threads and read them, but I know it takes too long so I don’t. So hey, I tried it again. 3 minutes to load your page, plus nearly 30 seconds to login.

So no, it’s not great - though actually I do think it was longer before maybe 5 mins. I posted it somewhere previously.

This is from NZ on a gig fibre connection. no other site has ever had this problem in the history of my experience even going back to dial up days.

I should add, I also got stuck in Australia when Covid first hit, and the performance was equally as bad there. Which shows how long this problem has been sitting around without a solution as it had literally been years before that that I installed next cloud and I have never known it to be any faster. I truly hope (no pray) that something in this information leads to a solution as really this is incredibly embarrassing.

traceroute to help.nextcloud.com (95.217.53.146), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets
 1  gw.mygateway.co.nz (192.168.43.3)  0.576 ms  0.324 ms  0.338 ms
 2  * * *
 3  * * *
 4  122.56.119.216 (122.56.119.216)  14.620 ms  3.373 ms  3.179 ms
 5  xe11-0-6.sjbr3.global-gateway.net.nz (122.56.119.14)  126.541 ms
    xe-7-0-3.sjbr3.global-gateway.net.nz (203.96.120.134)  127.546 ms
    ae10-10.tkbr12.global-gateway.net.nz (202.50.232.29)  3.517 ms
 6  ae0.pabr5.global-gateway.net.nz (203.96.120.74)  130.829 ms
    xe8-0-9.lebr7.global-gateway.net.nz (122.56.127.22)  132.215 ms
    ae0.pabr5.global-gateway.net.nz (203.96.120.74)  130.912 ms
 7  ae3-10.sjbr3.global-gateway.net.nz (122.56.127.25)  130.129 ms
    palo-b1-link.ip.twelve99.net (62.115.145.204)  135.451 ms  135.305 ms
 8  ae0.pabr5.global-gateway.net.nz (203.96.120.74)  134.373 ms
    nyk-bb2-link.ip.twelve99.net (62.115.122.37)  193.000 ms
    ae0.pabr5.global-gateway.net.nz (203.96.120.74)  135.400 ms
 9  palo-b1-link.ip.twelve99.net (62.115.145.204)  143.853 ms  138.291 ms  140.961 ms
10  s-bb2-link.ip.twelve99.net (62.115.139.172)  283.021 ms
    hbg-bb3-link.ip.twelve99.net (80.91.249.11)  290.575 ms  290.062 ms
11  kbn-bb2-link.ip.twelve99.net (80.91.254.90)  283.339 ms
    kbn-bb1-link.ip.twelve99.net (62.115.134.76)  293.153 ms
    kbn-bb2-link.ip.twelve99.net (80.91.254.90)  285.331 ms
12  hetzner-svc076536-ic365572.ip.twelve99-cust.net (62.115.52.255)  282.089 ms  281.488 ms  301.094 ms
13  hls-b3-link.ip.twelve99.net (62.115.122.35)  290.478 ms  291.951 ms  290.785 ms
14  kbn-b1-link.ip.twelve99.net (62.115.143.7)  294.737 ms
    ex9k2.dc2.hel1.hetzner.com (213.239.224.142)  285.726 ms
    hetzner-svc076536-ic365572.ip.twelve99-cust.net (62.115.52.255)  286.247 ms
15  s5.nextcloud.com (95.216.247.163)  285.666 ms
    kbn-bb2-link.ip.twelve99.net (62.115.138.112)  289.376 ms
    core31.hel1.hetzner.com (213.239.203.205)  286.553 ms
16  * ex9k2.dc2.hel.hetzner.com (213.239.224.146)  295.374 ms
    ex9k2.dc2.hel1.hetzner.com (213.239.224.142)  289.824 ms
17  help.nextcloud.com (95.217.53.146)  282.863 ms
    hls-b3-link.ip.twelve99.net (62.115.122.35)  304.550 ms  301.067 ms
2 Likes

Thank you for asking! Yes, I do still have some performance issues with the forum. Seems like first load with a cold browser cache is the main or only issue. After the initial load the forum behaves more like a single page application (only partially loading pages) and is generally fast. The Firefox developer tools indicates a download of something or other is hanging and blocking progress towards a usable, interactive page. Sometimes it takes more than a minute before I can do anything (I’ll call that my “minutes-long issue” below).

  • location: Seattle, WA USA
  • vpn: no
  • network: gigabit fiber
  • browser: Firefox

Firefox asset download details: OpenSans-Regular.ttf is blocked but requests for /fonts/OpenSans-Regular.ttf?v=0.0.9 succeed (HTTP 200).

Ah, OpenSans-Regular.ttf is blocked by Firefox because it is hosted on a different domain. Maybe that is blocking other assets from loading as well? Check out these errors from the Firefox console:

Cross-Origin Request Blocked: The Same Origin Policy disallows reading the remote resource at https://nextcloud.com/wp-content/themes/nextcloud-theme/dist/fonts/OpenSansRegular.ttf. (Reason: CORS request did not succeed). Status code: (null).
downloadable font: download failed (font-family: "Open Sans" style:normal weight:400 stretch:100 src index:2): bad URI or cross-site access not allowed source: https://nextcloud.com/wp-content/themes/nextcloud-theme/dist/fonts/OpenSansRegular.ttf 

I can reproduce this CORS failure in the Chromium browser.

https://www.webpagetest.org/result/220911_BiDcQK_879/ shows a timing of <5sec for an interactive page, so doesn’t really count as a good independent repro outside my home network of the minutes-long issue, but it does show several blocking assets and a 4xx HTTP error response code for OpenSansRegular.ttf.

help.nextcloud.com...Virginia USA - EC2 - WebPageTest Result has some really interesting suggestions, including a couple related to the OpenSansRegular.ttf issue above.

See also:

Here’s output of tracepath -n help.nextcloud.com:

 1?: [LOCALHOST]                      pmtu 1492
 1:  192.168.1.1                                           0.361ms
 1:  192.168.1.1                                           0.295ms
 2:  63.231.10.75                                          2.515ms
 3:  63.226.198.81                                         2.426ms
 4:  no reply
 5:  4.69.161.98                                         178.492ms asymm 17
 6:  212.133.6.2                                         179.173ms asymm 17
 7:  213.239.224.38                                      178.922ms asymm 17
 8:  213.239.224.142                                     178.807ms asymm 17
 9:  95.216.247.163                                      178.887ms 
10:  95.217.53.146                                       178.928ms reached
     Resume: pmtu 1492 hops 10 back 10 

mtr -n help.nextcloud.com tries harder, and it shows that “no reply” hop is from a router with IPv4 address 4.68.38.173. It shows 90% packet loss from that router. I’m guessing that router is in Finland based on the similarity of the IP address of the next router. Here’s a snapshot of mtr output:

                                  My traceroute  [v0.93]
myhost (192.168.1.101)                                            2022-09-11T12:33:08-0700
Keys:  Help   Display mode   Restart statistics   Order of fields   quit
                                                  Packets               Pings
 Host                                           Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg  Best  Wrst StDev
 1. 192.168.1.1                                  0.0%    12    0.3   0.3   0.3   0.3   0.0
 2. 63.231.10.75                                 0.0%    12    4.1   4.0   2.3  18.3   4.5
 3. 63.226.198.81                                0.0%    12    2.5   2.7   2.2   4.5   0.6
 4. 4.68.38.173                                 90.9%    12    3.0   3.0   3.0   3.0   0.0
 5. 4.69.161.98                                  0.0%    12  178.3 180.7 177.9 192.3   4.8
 6. 212.133.6.2                                  0.0%    12  178.8 179.7 178.5 184.2   2.0
 7. 213.239.224.38                               0.0%    12  178.8 179.9 178.6 186.3   2.3
 8. 213.239.224.142                              0.0%    11  178.7 178.7 178.4 179.0   0.2
 9. 95.216.247.163                               0.0%    11  178.6 178.6 178.4 178.9   0.2
10. 95.217.53.146                                0.0%    11  178.8 195.5 178.6 278.0  37.1

Browser details: currently I’m running Firefox 64-bit v104.0 (just whatever is the latest available in the deb/snap repositories for Ubuntu 20.04 and 22.04 LTS) on an Ubuntu desktop or laptop. I can repeat my minutes-long issue in the Chromium browser.

Network details: I’m paying my ISP for 1gbps up and down. Latency is generally very good: 2ms average pings to google dot com. Low jitter with these pings, too. I use a Pi-hole, and I notice it blocks stats.nextcloud.com, so piwik.js is not downloaded by my browser. This doesn’t seem to cause any issues.

I did a couple tests that are maybe more reproducible/actionable.

Some of the Javascript assets are taking a very long time to load, and this seems to be blocking content display and interactivity. Credit to others smarter and faster than me for this cool curl trick.

To repro, first create curl-format.txt, containing:

     time_namelookup:  %{time_namelookup}s\n
        time_connect:  %{time_connect}s\n
     time_appconnect:  %{time_appconnect}s\n
    time_pretransfer:  %{time_pretransfer}s\n
       time_redirect:  %{time_redirect}s\n
  time_starttransfer:  %{time_starttransfer}s\n
                       ----------\n
          time_total:  %{time_total}s\n

Then try downloading some assets. You can get the URLs from below or from the Network tab in your browser’s developer tools. I don’t bother including full output below because all the specific timings are <1sec except time_total. I only include my time_total values below.

# 30sec time_total on my computer. 279KB file size.
curl -w "@curl-format.txt" -o /dev/null -s https://help.nextcloud.com/assets/locales/en-47d629005ed8e32df84f3bb24160792376d2ae05d9748d4d45cefabb291b55dc.js

# 1min 40sec time_total on my computer. 1.1MB file size.
curl -w "@curl-format.txt" -o /dev/null -s https://help.nextcloud.com/assets/vendor-ba7d09ad35bd9aedfe313624355092d06c2c3d59f4ef9a41061b57ae59de9c0c.js

# 4min 47sec time_total on my computer. 2.9MB file size.
curl -w "@curl-format.txt" -o /dev/null -s https://help.nextcloud.com/assets/discourse-446b4a42b2d69071509174374b80bf7c104e9e68e9d6488bb7658c8d63741434.js

Download speeds for these assets average about 10 kibibytes/sec. That seems really slow. Are these served with a CDN? That would surely help. How about compressing them too? I downloaded and ran gzip on the .js files and saw average space savings of 75%.

The Javascript assets do appear to be minimized, so that’s good. Maybe they could/should be combined as well? I thought the best practice was to transpile, combine, minimize, and compress all Javascript assets, do as much of this as possible beforehand, and use a CDN to serve all static assets.

That’s not a problem, the router just doesn’t prioritize to answer pings. It would be a problem if there are similar or higher losses after that. The traceroute the other way round looks similar and goes through Level3 (Lumen):

 3  core23.fsn1.hetzner.com (213.239.229.57)  0.556 ms core24.fsn1.hetzner.com (213.239.229.61)  0.555 ms core23.fsn1.hetzner.com (213.239.229.57)  0.541 ms
 4  213-239-203-118.clients.your-server.de (213.239.203.118)  1.271 ms 213-239-203-114.clients.your-server.de (213.239.203.114)  0.337 ms juniper4.dc1.fsn1.hetzner.com (213.239.203.130)  0.336 ms
 5  ae55.edge5.Berlin1.Level3.net (62.67.27.9)  8.125 ms ae54.edge5.Berlin1.Level3.net (62.67.27.5)  7.819 ms ae55.edge5.Berlin1.Level3.net (62.67.27.9)  8.431 ms
 6  ae2.3603.ear4.Seattle1.level3.net (4.69.202.238)  168.112 ms  167.926 ms  170.345 ms
 7  4.68.38.170 (4.68.38.170)  168.848 ms 4.68.38.174 (4.68.38.174)  169.039 ms  169.010 ms
 8  tukw-dsl-gw75.tukw.qwest.net (63.231.10.75)  169.555 ms  169.394 ms  169.155 ms

I have fast timings as well, even the time_total is below 1s (France, fiber connection Orange/Free).

If that is the main problem, do you see similar speeds for test files on speed.hetzner.com? Normally Hetzner has bough transit for Level3(Lumen): Data centers - Hetzner Online GmbH

1 Like

Thank you for your elaborate reply and gathering all this information for us. Where are you geographically located? And are you using any vpn software?

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Fascinating, thanks!

I’m happy to try downloading test files. Will you give me URLs to try?

Cool, happy to help.

I covered location & vpn in my first post above: Forum performance: still a problem? - #15 by meonkeys

1 Like