Sadly this app is no longer maintained

🍱 Features & apps cms-pico
1

Sadly this app is no longer maintained. It was a great and VERY usefull app for community and collaboration, as it allowed for a seamless experience much like Sharepoint.
It was easy to create sites only available “internally” in the Nextcloud interface, using the external links app. Further you could limit access to certain groups, or make them public.

The collectives app can provide some of the same, however it is very limited in the possibilities it offers, and it is dependant on the circles app. Worse is that you cannot publish collectives pages the same way as with picocms.

I am really sad this app is dead. :frowning:

2

Very sad indeed, I invested a lot of time and effort into my blog, and now it doesn’t install anymore with NC27

3

My impression isn’t that it’s dead. More “limited developers/contributors and they’re very busy” + upstream blockers. It’s status >NC25 is tightly coupled to - I think - Pico 3.x unless one wants to take on doing changes to the older Pico base.

Take all this with a grain of salt. I’m not a current user of Pico, but I poked around a bit across the repositories.

I get, however, that in the mean time for those that aren’t able to directly assist themselves it’s a bit of a waiting game.

4

Albeit I would agree that it is not ‘dead’ per se, since with some light hacking you can get at least some functionality back, I would argue that for the end-user who just wants to install and go, it might as well be, until further notice.

If it works now, then stick with it until you no longer can, or you can look into the changes required as to make it work as best as you can, or simply look for an alternate solution. Since unless someone else takes over the project, the current Dev simply does not have the time to do any major changes. Which due to the NC’s Vue.js changes will likely be necessary. I saw the writing on the wall and bailed as I did not want to be having to make changes on every.single.update as to make it work, if at all, and unless you want to depend on a number of ‘what if’s’ to happen, I would suggest that you may want to do the same.

Just one of the issues which is being currently, so-called, resolved can be found here:

This has been a breaking issue for most users, yet it is worth nothing the above issue has been outstanding/open for a year minus 10 days, as of this writing.

This is for anyone who ends up here and is curious about Pico.

5

I would be happy if these kinds of apps were simply thrown out of the AppStore. There is no longer a Nextcloud version supported by Nextcloud that supports this app. And now that the AppStore is being cleaned up, perhaps a distinction should be made between apps that are more or less supported by Nextcloud and pure community apps. Yes, I know Nextcloud is free software. But it’s just crap for companies. It’s no wonder that many users and, above all, companies are dissatisfied with it.

Pico CMS (support till Nextcloud 25)
Nextcloud 25 is EOL

There is absolutely no point in supporting an app like this for Nextcloud 26 etc. There are new Nextcloud versions much faster than there are people trying to keep the apps running.

Is there no one responsible for the AppStore who simply cleans up the AppStore?

1 Like
6

I think that would be the “Featured Apps” (oder “Ausgewählte Apps” in der Deutschen Version) Featured apps - App Store - Nextcloud

Well, I have limited sympathy for companies when they find themselves in a position like this, especially larger companies. I think they should do their research before relying on third-party apps or paying someone to do the research for them.

They could, for example, consult Nextcloud GmbH before starting to use random third-party apps and then buy an Entrerise subscription that would provide them with LTS support, which would allow them to continue using the same version of Nextcloud for a much longer period of time.

This additional support period would buy them time to either find an alternative if an app was discontinued, or even better, to invest a few hours of a developer’s time to actively contribute to OSS projects that they use for their business completely free of charge.

7

Yes. But “supported apps” would probably be better :wink: See my discussion for “not supported”.

Really? According to cms_pico the app was available for Nextcloud 12 to Nextcloud 25 (2017-2022), so you can assume that this app will continue to be maintained. There are no real differences to e.g. the app Notes and other “featured apps”. No warning. Even for both apps they use a subfolder of https://github.com/nextcloud. Please tell me where you could have recognized that this app is less well maintained than other apps.

8

Well, of course, you can never be sure what will happen a few years after you start using certain software, even with commercial products. (See, for example, the VMware-Broadcom acquisition). But you can certainly minimise the risk of suddenly finding the rug pulled out from under you by either not using third party apps at all or, as I’ve said before, by using LTS releases from Nextcloud, which would at least have bought you some time.

By the way, PicoCMS as a standalone app is not dead, and it doesn’t look like the Nextcloud integration is either. It just seems that the dev of the Nextcloud app doesn’t have the time at the moment and/or doesn’t know how to make the app compatible. This is where a company could step in with code contributions, either themselves or by paying someone to do it.

9

Yes, that’s all true. But unfortunately it is not easy for the user to recognize whether Pico CMS or Notes is more lovingly supported by Nextlcoud GmbH or the Nextcloud community.

10

Yes, I agree, this should probably be solved better.

And to be honest, the only reason I can think of why they call these apps “Featured” instead of “Supported” is that Nextcloud GmbH itself does not want to imply or even guarantee that they will always work a 100%. But that’s just a guess on my part and I could be completely wrong.

11

I have found a documentation with Supported apps. :wink:

https://docs.nextcloud.com/server/latest/admin_manual/installation/apps_supported.html

But there is not Pico CMS and not Notes. :wink: Funny. but there are even Notes apps for Android and iOS.

1 Like
12

Okay. Well, in that case, I agree with you one hundred percent that there should be a separate category called “Supported” for these apps in the App Store.

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Maybe someone from Nextcloud GmbH is reading this thread and can change it in the AppStore or create an issue.

1 Like
14

I am a long time NC user… and yes, there is no way to know, unless you invest time into every single app’s git you want and go through the process of vetting regardless of what NC PR says and at times, and even then, hope for the best for some of them. Pico is but one example, so is the XMPP client, or the Backup, or SMS/Sync app, just to name a few. All have seemingly, and practically been been dropped by their Devs. Leaving it at, ‘maybe some day’ kind of vibe lingering. There are still on the store. Technically, they should be removed or hidden.

However, the reality is that NC PR will hype some apps for their Corporate base and then immediately and seemingly drop them as well, as they take backseat positions, for example the Whiteboard app, it was hyped in the 25 Release --if I recall— and then got dropped with barely any updates, ever. It is still at 0.015 Alpha with the last update being over a 1 1/2 year ago. So has the end-to-end encrypt app, which is the reason why I got into NC in the first place, was sold as a fully baked Feature only to later find out that it is at Alpha or Beta quality, at best. The reviews for this last app are dire and I am not willing to go through the hassle of having to deal with data loss like others have. It seems like a crap shot and only within my time, did they try to address it after seemingly enough people complained.

The Mail is slow and not fit for purpose, hence most of the negative reviews on the store, plus they insist in forcing users to have AI sort their mail. You can only disable it if you go into the code and comment out some things. NC PR hyped the Social app due to Elon Musk buying Twitter and saw a chance for milking it, then immediately forgot about it, and the version on the store does not work well, if at all. You have to install the alpha and hope for the best that it does not break. I gave up on it a long while back when it was not working.

I wish NC was more honest in their PR and like you said, clean their store. I get Caveat Emptor, but this is a bit on the ridiculous side given how the advertise some things. And I say that, still thankful that NC is free as part of their business model, but I cannot deny that I have found myself checking other solutions. Both of these thoughts can exist, since this is reality. The best use case for an NC user is if you only have a need for their in house apps. And even then, there has been a Rich Text bug on their Android Notes app that has been going now since NC25 that has yet to be addressed, just to name an example. And their NC28 update was really broken, even for NC standards and I wondered if they only released it because their PR or Roadmap stated as such. Since there are still a number of bugs on it but they are already on the 5 Beta for NC29.

Again, I like NC, but only because I like it, it does not mean that it is free of any criticism.

3 Likes
15

That’s exactly what version constraints are for: Pico CMS for Nextcloud is marked to be compatible till Nextcloud 25. It is marked to be incompatible with Nextcloud 26 and later. You (and others) imply that the app or the App Store gives a false impression about it still being supported, but that isn’t the case. I refrain from publishing a new version with the known hotfix in admin.js for the exact reason that I don’t want to imply that Pico CMS for Nextcloud is still supported.

Besides, I’m a bit baffled about how many of you think that you are somehow entitled to receive any support. You have no entitlements, neither for Nextcloud, and especially nor for 3rd-party apps. The existence of Nextcloud GmbH doesn’t change anything unless you actually pay Nextcloud GmbH for support. There are enterprise support plans and AFAIK you can even ask Nextcloud GmbH about supporting 3rd-party apps as well. Unless you don’t do that you get all of this for free. All 3rd-party developers work in their free time, many Nextcloud GmbH employees participate in their free time as well and even if they don’t, Nextcloud GmbH still has to pay them.

Criticising someone for giving you allegedly too few for free is a super weird take.

I keep up with at least some very basic level of support for the few remaining Pico CMS for Nextcloud users in my free time even though I’ve never (!) actually used that app. I just took over its development because I was annoyed about its previous state; but I didn’t complain about it, I took matters into my own hands and took over development. I have not seen anyone willing to do the same yet… I would appreciate it very much and would help wherever I can, but nobody is willing to do so.

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For the record, this is not about you, as a person, per se. I for one do not feel in any way that I am entitled to any support, whatsoever.
Your claim that I am is just plain wrong.

I do not use Pico and have not for years on NC, or otherwise. I use Bookstack and I do my own support. This is about NC’s management of their store and their public relations, which could be better, even for their own sake. Since their PR seems to inflate the usability of NC’s apps at times and due to it, NC as a whole. This is like not some new, wild take that I invented by any means. One has to merely read some reviews on their app store to get an idea of what I am talking about. I am stating this because I like NC.

I get that some Devs may feel as if they are being attacked when people criticize or comment on the status of their projects. Especially when they are free of charge, but you know this is reality and some type criticism, constructive and otherwise is just part of the territory. I am baffled that you seem to take this as some brand new type of happening. You are reading too much into it, at least in this case, coming from me.

Also, that is not what I was doing here. It is a fair take that NC should not have dozens of entries of unsupported apps that one can only tell the difference unless checking each single one. This could be improved, or you disagree? Perhaps if apps have not received an update in say a year, and are broken, that they should be labeled differently? But perhaps NC would not like the optics of that when it comes to their corporate clients. I do not know. Or that at the very least be more transparent about it regarding the levels of support of some of their apps. You can disagree with such opinion and you are free to do so, yet that does not make me incorrect, either.

This is why I mentioned a couple of NC-maintained/collaboration apps aside just yours as valid examples. The fact that NC is not required to provide support outside corporate is valid, but then again, they do push the Community Version quite a bit in their marketing. My background is in Marketing too, so I do see some incongruent takes from time to time. You can disagree but I will disagree with your take, there.

In fact, NC did provide incorrect/overblown PR about the Whiteboard app, dropping support almost to next to nothing right after launch. The end-to-end encryption app was (or is?) alpha/beta quality despite being advertised as fit for purpose for years, albeit in fairness that may have changed since I gave up on it a while back. The Social app is still in Alpha despite being heavily advertised as a working solution after Elon Musk bought Twitter during a major release launch event – I watched it. These are correct statements, this is reality. There is no entitlement here. Is pointing out reality entitlement? I did not get that memo. Anyone with some common sense, despite understanding these are free solutions, would have to be blind to not see the incongruousness found here.

My claim, that you stated that you do not have much or any time to work on the project… Is this an incorrect statement? That is what you wrote on Github. Did I state an incorrect fact? Please, by all means, point it out. And if it is correct, why would you take it as an insult?

I get that you did not want to push the fix and that is fine --that is fair, I mean, I did link to the issue for them to see your explanation, did I not?-- further I suggested the user to stay or look elsewhere if he could. How is that “expecting” support?

Lastly, look I get the frustration that few are willing to take over the mantle, in the end, the demographic of people will your skill-set who have the free time to do so for free is small. That is an unfortunate reality of the open source scene. It has always been and it will always be.

Thank you for the time and resources you have provided for Pico for other users.

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@DuffyCloud The main point of the post you replied to is in the very last sentence…

…which you barly address at all, instead you keep dwelling on the marketing of the Nextcloud GmbH, and on individual apps that were once showcased in a marketing event, and unfortunately are no longer being maintained in the meantime. But the thing you don’t seem to realise is that this is completely irrelevant in this context, and that none of these apps would be in a better state if the marketing events were a little more “modest”, or whatever you expect them to be.

Nextcloud GmbH primarily provides paid support and consulting services around Nextcloud, and they also employ some paid developers to develop and maintain Nextcloud and its core applications, and they provide certain infrastructure such as the app store and this community forum. All of this benefits the community, but also a whole commercial ecosystem that has formed around Nextcloud, including hosting providers, IT service providers or companies that just use Nextcloud to run their business, most of them without contributing anything in return, be it money or code.

Btw, the situation with the whiteboard app is similar to that of PicoCMS. The base (Spaceboard), also an OSS project, is no longer being developed and no one is stepping in: Switch to an actively maintained whiteboard solution · Issue #54 · nextcloud/integration_whiteboard · GitHub

So I think that if every company that makes money with OSS would invest a small part of that income in the development, maintenance etc. of the OSS projects they use, those projects would probably have a better chance of surviving… But what do I know and who am I to tell others what to do… One thing I know for sure though, at the end of the day it’s those who actively participate in a project, who decide how and whether a project is continued, and not the keyboard warriors in the forums who only criticise :wink:

But of course OSS has one big advantage in this context - anyone can pick up an abandoned project and continue it or fork an existing project and steer it in a new direction if they don’t agree with the direction the project is currently taking.

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Even though I may be repeating myself. I think Nextcloud is a great piece of software. I also understand the problems with free software. But I don’t understand why Nextcloud GmbH doesn’t deal with this issue a little more transparently. It’s not about supporting the apps. It’s simply about classifying the apps correctly.

Nextcloud can now do almost everything. Maybe one day it will be able to make coffee too. :coffee: But it’s about time to remove all the Nextcloud app corpses. I know many users who reject Nextcloud simply because Nextcloud can do everything and wants to be everything. If applications such as CMS Pico no longer work, this should also be reported transparently. This minimizes frustration for people who may not read the associated issues.

19

I already agreed with you on that point, when it comes to the categories in the app store, but it’s not a dealbreaker to me either.

Also, I’m not sure if abandoned apps should be completely removed because somebody could pick them up at any time and continue developing them.

20

Yes, that’s right. But you could perhaps warn people a little more about using the app.

I would also like to remind you of the app Share Renamer (Nextcloud 22 - 26) . Fortunately, the app is no longer needed today because of the app Configurable share links (Nextcloud 20 - 28). Until this app is also dropped by the developers and/or Nextcloud GmbH.

Unfortunately, it could be that you come across the first rather than the second app when searching.