Jos you see, you advertise it to your site SO IT should be working as it supposed to. So bare with the statistics etcâŚ
Yes we know how open source works thatâs why we are using it and helping too and how world works but please stop the excuses about something YOU should have fixed even with a paid version.
We r not poor that seeking for salvation and crying out loud. You advertise something at your business webpage then make it work or else donât advertise it.
Accepting mistakes and failures makes you look better you know.
One of the problems with open source projects is that as they get bigger the people who were developing the initial cool features donât want to maintain them. Thatâs because often people who develop open-source do it because theyâre entrepreneurial-type people. So once theyâve created a solution to a problem they want to move on to the next new and exciting thing.
Nextcloud the company only really provides support to things that allow for itâs developers to continue to get paid, and Outlook support is in much higher demand than Thunderbird.
Lots of topics of discussion here around this; are the companies that use Thunderbird freeloading by not funding for a developer, do they understand the cost, should governments be supporting open source software because itâs open vs. private, etc. etc.
Ultimately itâs probably in poor taste for Nextcloud to advertise an extension and not have it maintained, so possibly there could be a tag or a widget added to the App page that more clearly states that the app is not officially supported, and possibly another widget below that that that links directly to a Liberapay or Caterse (brazilian open source software equivalent to kickstarter), that would show how much money is needed for a developer to spend their time on updating the software.
I think everyone has the best intentions in mind but there are some work processes and technological solutions that would allow for funding to be made more clear for certain apps/extensions.
I see this with NodeBB a lot where someone created something really cool, and then it hasnât been maintained in a year and a core update breaks it, itâs a shame because the core developers mean well but they canât keep everything up to date. There has to be a critical mass of users/developers and Nextcloud isnât there yet. Very few open source projects get there because or they do and then the freerider problem kicks in. I think better organization of app sites that integrate crowdfunding is one potential solution, but maybe a rocket.chat for nextcloud could create a more tight-knit community, or maybe there is another model. Or possibly we just need to be patient and as more companies and governments adopt Nextcloud, the ecosystem will build and more people will create and maintain extensions. /rant.
There is one thing about the developers, they loose interest after some time and then others (or Nextcloud) must step in to maintain the feature. The bookmark app was at some point only maintained to keep it working and recently, a few people invested some more time. The news app, itâs currently only supported to make it work in the new version.
There is a different thing about testing, we are still experiencing some problems with incompatibilities after new releases. For apps, this should be show, however, when itâs only about increasing the serial number, this should be done before the master release. And of course other software (clients, plugins, âŚ). I suppose there is an internal testing plan for Nextcloud, perhaps there should be an open one as well. Some people might be willing to test but they perhaps donât know what.
as far as i know TB doesnât update automatically to v60 so far. which means you must have done it manually⌠maybe mozilla didnât roll it out to everyone for a good reason?
the common way of testing a new version is: installing it on a test-system and check it out. and then update/upgrade the working system after every test has successfully passed on the test-system. (ya, thatâs a bit of work, indeed)
so why do YOU blame anyone here, at all? since i only see a lack of YOUR own responsibility here. (so much for:
@ashgoodman I am very glad you like the product and welcome to the community (if you are new, I did not check your user profile )
The community code of conduct is there for all of us. An honest answer can be given without a bad attitude, and I think what we should remember is that an open source community is 99% of the time people doing it in their spare time, and for the love of the comnunity. So unless someone pays for the service, and even then, I think no-one is entitled to anything. Yeah paying for a service may make you entitled to a feature, but does not make you entitled to being a jerk. Just my 2c.
The problem is that it is a bit unpredictable if apps with really awesome features get deprecated without any replacement. I think this hurts the app ecosystem in the long run because with a rapid release cycle features could go away rather quickly. To be on the safe side this limits the use case of Nextcloud narrowly to the official supported features with a bunch of apps possibly going away rather fast.
Sorry, it occasionally happens, thereâs not much you can do about that. Any software you use can be discontinued⌠It being open source at least means somebody else can pick it up
Many valid points have already been brought forward. I want to add one thing and hope Iâm not crashing the party here. Long story short: I could invest so much more time in developing apps if stuff was documented.
Without any go-to-place I always have to invest a lot more time to even get started and to get little things up-and-running, instead of focussing on the actual functionality of the app.
Little real-world-example: Iâm developing an app with multiple pages. I found out how to create routes and a left-sided nav by looking at other apps. Now, I have no clue how to active a nav item when it represents the current page. Canât find this info anywhere. Have stopped working on that app, because itâs too much effort to start again. (The app is not public, yet. To be fair, there is a lot more missing than that nav entry highlight. But if I knew where to look for the missing info, the app would already be in a better state.)
Here are some nice examples of how projects document their APIs, and by doing so attract developers:
I know there is documentation and I know (community-) people are working hard on it! But for me it feels like the documentation covers about 10 %, especially for developers and especially the client-side/javascript part. My point is, there should be resources from nextcloud, the company, being dedicated to creating a helpful developer documentation. Why? Because it is a primary driver to attract app developers and that is a primary driver for more quality apps and that makes for a broader adoption of nextcloud⌠you know where this is going.
You might read this post in your head in a frustrated voice (because I might be a bit frustrated writing this ) However, at the end of the day I love the nextcloud community and the things that make nextcloud special. Just wanted to put this ârantâ in writing in case anyone agrees or disagrees.
maybe you havenât fully got behind the idea of open source and the business plan of nextcloud, inc?
nextcloud, inc is selling support for nextcloud software to make a living. thatâs their main goal. so @jospoortvliet is doing exactly what he is paid for by nextcloud, inc. - doing marketing for his company.
maybe it would get clearer if you try to imaging founding your own company which sells support for nextcloud software⌠and you would hire a marketing guy for your company. i bet he would write something likewise.
because itâs the truth. though isnât probably neccessarily what you wanted to hear/read.
NB: of course you could fire everyone youâd like to in your own company. nextcloud, inc is a germany-based company⌠so âhire & fireâ isnât as easy as in the US (e.g.)
Hey, donât feel bad. Iâm sorry that our documentation isnât as great as we wish it could be - youâre entirely right of course. Our developers do their best but they have deadlines, customer projects and support to deliver - so often, documentation comes last, especially as it isnât fun to do. Could we pay somebody to do documentation? Sure, but there are 10 other things we need to hire people for and sadly there is only so much money we get paid by customers. Thatâs the downside of giving your software away for free
Help is of course welcome. Iâd love to invite you to our Community Week in Stuttgart later this month and of course youâre welcome to any other events, like our conference. Perhaps a few engineers can sit with you, help you with your app AND work together to create some nice documentation for the next person who comes to figure things out. https://nextcloud.com/blog/join-us-at-our-next-contributor-week/
@JimmyKater you are 100% correct. Ok, no, 99% - it is Nextcloud GmbH, not Inc
Mja, you can translate it like that I suppose, they are comparable, but technically an Inc does function under different rules and jurisdiction than a GmbH, so itâs complicated and not really correct to just translate these things between countries.
What you write makes perfect sense, and it is, frankly, what I expect to a certain extent. Still, I disagree with that management decision regarding not spending money on documentation, but I think thatâs okay (the disagreement, that is)
However, I think itâs probably not about paying a single person to do âdocumentationâ, but to introduce a way of documenting code that can be fun for (core-)developers as well and can help them along the way to be even more productive, as well as helping community developers to catch up. There certainly is a way, and that is exactly, where Iâd wish for some input from a professional in that area.
Perhaps a few engineers can sit with you, help you with your app AND work together to create some nice documentation for the next person who comes to figure things out.
I probably wonât be able to join the community week, but Iâm already thrilled about the next conference, where we can do exactly the same stuff