Language / locale mixup?

I think there’s slight mixup in how language and locale are working together.

The locale is supposed to be language independent, yet the locale sets the language in apps like calendar, even though the language is set to a different language.

I want to set the following date/time preference and start day of the week:

%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S eg.: 2019-04-07 16:07:17
and week starting Monday

However, it seems that this is not possible. The only locale that does that is Esperanto, but it changes the language to Esperanto as well.

I am really puzzled by this. I can’t believe that it is impossible to set the date and time to an ISO format. Anyway, maybe there should be a way to define your own date/time and start-of-week day, but with using the language you selected in the language field.
That’s usually how it works. The locale does not set the language. It changes the way how data is presented, that’s it.

Please let me know how I can accomplish this simple task:

Date/time format: %Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S eg.: 2019-04-07 16:07:17
Week starting: Monday
Language: English

P.S.: Please note that the locale technically also sets the language, but then you don’t need a language setting. I therefore thought that the locale in Nextcloud is strictly for data representation. So somehow I don’t understand how Nextcloud uses the terms Language and Locale. In any case, I still would like to use my own date/time format and start-of-week day.
I’m also more than happy to patch my local installation. Just let me know how I can accomplish the task I described above.

Anyone? Seriouly? Nothing?

Let me try to make it a bit simpler, maybe the text above was too verbose:

I want to set the following date/time preference and start day of the week while using the language English (en_US):

%Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S eg.: 2019-04-07 16:07:17
and week starting Monday

How can I do that?

Anyone? Did I open this in the wrong category? Shall I open a github issue instead?

have you tried setting it as a machine-default on your server, already?

other than that… maybe really github would be the right place to ask for that option.

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I have no idea what you are talking about. Language and Locale do not have an item called system default or anything like that.

The question is which repo shall I use to open the issue?

if you set language and locale on your machine (either while installing it or later via systemconfiguration) this is the default for your computer/server. so it could happen that a server is configured to use lang XY and locale ZZ while your client computer uses lang AB on locale CD… and thus you’d see the date-settings of the server on your client-computer…

why not here? they’re gonna let you know if it’s the right place

This is true, but has nothing to do with web applications. Furthermore the sytem setting is as the name says a system setting. This does not mean a user (on the server) can’t use a different language/locale. Clients do not come to play here at all. The only applications where a client setting might override a server setting are database CLI drivers and/or applications.

The system setting could be used by a web application, however this is a very bad practice and never done (if you find such an app, do not ever use it, because its designers are imbeciles). This is also the reason why you set the language and locale in Nextcloud.

I will open an issue in the server repo, but I’m afraid I already know what will happen.

all of this is true. and i am sure we meant the same thing and just used different words to explain it :wink:

most prolly nothing would happen and it would be closed for irrelevance or something.
but if that might happen you’d know that you’d need to devellop an app doing this setting for you.

Hi Tessus, a search on setting locale and language in Nextcloud brought me to this thread. I would like to configure Nextcloud along the lines you mentioned in your first post. Did you get an answer? Thanks in advance.

Probably some progress with the above pull request.

@cbrace Nope, unfortunately not. I hardly get any answer to my questions and problems in this forum (or the github tracker).

How can I do that?

Unfortunately there is no way to do that. Date/Time preference is following the locale (to finally answer your question).

Thanks for the answer. Too bad though, because the format I was looking for is the one that makes the most sense. Anyway, I have my answer and I hope I’ll find a workaround at one point.

On Nextcloud 20.0.8, I found that a combination of setting Language to British English and Locale to Esperanto produced the behavior the OP describes (and which I would also like). A few Esperanto words pop up in odd places, but almost everything is in English and I find it quite usable.

Yes, I’ve tried that too. But having the days in my calendar in Esperanto seems a bit weird, when all I want is setting a freaking ISO format for date and time. :wink:

Most apps I know allow you to specify date and time format. The same is true for when the week starts.

The problem is that the design in Nextcloud by linking locale to formats is flawed, when the most logical combination and format is not achievable. Unfortunately I’ve been unsuccessful in conveying that sentiment. I only get things like: it’s open source, fix it yourself or pay us thousands of dolllars.

Well, it is possible that if you installed a custom locale on the machine serving Nextcloud which was based on English but had ISO date format and a Monday week start, and restarted the web server, you would then be able to select the new locale in the Nextcloud web interface and all would be well for you. But I am comfortable enough with the British English/Esperanto combo that it’s not worth the effort for me (if I recall, setting up a new locale is kind of arcane). Just wanted to make that suggestion in case it would be helpful. But yes, I agree that overall, it would be great if the locale system easily allowed individual overrides of specific settings. Note in my experience it’s not just Nextcloud but many Linux apps that are rigid about following all of the settings of a single locale, without the ability to actually customize to the combination you want.