Bridge to Proton Drive as external storage?

Hi there,

Now rclone is able to deal with ProtonDrive, is there any chance that someone may create a Nextcloud app handling a ProtonDrive as an external storage?

Having subscribed to a hosted Nextcloud instance and having a Proton Drive account too, I would just have found the perfect solution: not needing to trust my Nextcloud host, and having all the great features of Nextcloud.

Thre’s always a chance that someone might create something… :wink:

If your post is meant as a feature request, I doubt that this will ever come as an official app…

Rclone supports Nextcloud as well. That is the solution.

Well yeah but you would need some place to run Rclone on. You probably can’t run it on a hosted Nextcloud instance.

Rclone is fantastic and actually exists right now.
The other thing is the supported Nextcloud instance only needs to support external storage to mount over rclone as webdav.

Selfhosting is the price you must pay, especially since proton is not supporting webdav directly.

Yep, if you are selfhosting your Nextcloud instance you could add an Rclone mount as external storage to Nextcloud.

I left that possibility out, because @Freedim said that he runs a hosted Nextcloud instance and therefore would like to have a Nextcloud app.

And also because I’m not a fan of the External Storage App which I feel, apart from basic things like how to configure Apache, PHP, Port Forwarding etc, generates the most issues here in the forums, and I still see it as a stopgap or transitional solution, but not as something that one should have as a goal to use permanently. But maybe that’s just me :wink:

Shouldn’t you also be able to add selfhosted rclone to hosted Nextcloud via external storage as well?

Some solutions, like, are offering “managed hosting” with an external graphical web app enabling the installation of additional applications (Redis, systemd, PHP extensions, Python, ffmpeg etc.) in the managed hosting. I was hoping rclone would be installable, then usable by a Nextcloud app.

Are referring to Cpanel or similar?

I’ve never used cPanel (or did I without noticing?), but I was more thinking of something like Installatron.

I’m not aware of any hosted Nextcloud instances or web hosting plans that you can install Rclone on, but that’s a question you would have to ask your provider…

What would work for sure though, is a Virtual Private (Linux) Server (VPS) with full root access. On such a “root server” you could then install Rclone yourself. Many providers also offer VPSs in combination with a management panel for web applications (C-Panel, Plesk etc…). However, that’s usually more expensive than a plain Linux VPS, a web hosting plan or a hosted Nextcloud instance, and you would still have to setup Rclone manually via command line.

Yes, one day… I’ll take time to learn how to properly administer Nextcloud and its compagnons (Redis, TURN etc.) and will run my own instance in a VPS.

But then it will defeat the purpose of having a Proton Drive, right? I’ll just have to install my OS in the VPS as encrypted by LUKS, and I won’t need to trust my hosting provider, I believe.

Since LUKS is running entirely on the server side and the data is only encrypted at rest, you can’t be a 100% sure that the provider won’t get to your data if they really want to and put enough effort into it.

So if you don’t trust the hosting provider, the data must be encrypted on the client before it is transferred to the server, also known as client-side encryption. This is also how ProtonDrive works: The Proton Drive security model | Proton

Btw. Nextcloud can do encryption as well, both server-side and client-side encryption: Nextcloud encryption and hardening

Yes, I’ve been using a cocktail of Proton Drive and hosted Nextcloud with Cryptomator and gocryptfs for years. The E2EE of Nextcloud has been sucking for years, but I hear it has greatly improved in v27. I may give it another try soon.

Problem with Cryptomator and gocryptfs is when drawing other non-technical / non-enthusiast people towards generalised E2EE. Many are confused when it comes to share a folder, as they need to look for the encrypted folder they usually don’t deal with, and share that one rather than the decrypted virtual folder they are used to working with.

Proton is not able to sync shared folders yet.

However I am bugged by your statement that my hosting provider could access the data in transit even if I use LUKS.

My understanding is that the asymmetric encryption used in TLS makes it only possible for the provider to decrypt incoming data if they had access to the private key (which should be protected by LUKS and thus not accessible to them) and that decrypting the outgoing data is not possible because only the recipient has got the private key.

But I confess I don’t know the details of TLS. Would you have some insights so that I can figure out what the threat is exactly?

Your hosting provider has total access to everything, regardless of whether the data is encrypted at rest. Nothing stops them from straight up deleting your account. If you cannot trust your provider your best bet is to selfhost. Nextcloud is not a zero trust solution, but rather one you run where you feel comfortable. Encrypting a disk at rest does not prevent your host from knowing you run Nextcloud, etc. In the end you are using their computer.

Ok, I should have been more specific. I just want to prevent the hosting provider from accessing my plaintext data. I don’t care if they delete it (I have backups) or have metadata.

But I disagree that the host provider “has total access to everything” in the case of a VPS (or bare metal server) with LUKS, unless they went as far as compromising the installer they provide in order to steal the key or password when setting up LUKS. But that would be very far reaching and quite dangerous for the provider’s reputation and business, in case someone figures out.

No, that’s not the only thing a provider could do. If your server is running on a third-party hypervisor/virtual infrastructure over which you do not have full control, there are several ways for the provider to gain access to the data or parts of the data at runtime. But I am not a security expert and this discussion is also somewhat outside the scope of this forum.

The point is, if you don’t trust the provider, you have to encrypt the data before it is going to be transferred. Only then you can be a 100% sure that the provider can’t get access to it in any way.

And please do not confuse Transport Layer Security (TLS) with End-to-End Encryption. TLS is important, but it only protects the data while being transferred.

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Of course of you run a virtual machine the provider will have full access to your data.

That’s why I was specifically talking of a VPS where the user remotely installs the OS, possibly with LUKS. In that case I don’t see how the provider would be able to access anything inside the OS, unless they rigged the OS installer in the first place, which is very risky for their business.

And by the way I think it’s the whole point of paying much more to have a VPS or a bare metal. That’s where high-profile attacks come from too.

I think stating that I’ve been using Cryptomator, gocryptfs and ProtonDrive for years demonstrate that I don’t mix up TLS and E2E/client side encryption, but you were saying the providers can still find a way to bypass the LUKS encryption of a VPS, so I was trying to imagine what you were referring to.

Because indeed, if I trust the remote server (because I installed it myself with LUKS and, until I hear some insights on how LUKS could be bypassed, I trust nobody will be abe to access my system without a LUKS password), then I don’t need anything else than TLS 1.3 for the transport, I don’t need E2EE, whether Nextcloud native or third party like Cryptomator or goryptfs, nor even Nextcloud’s encryption at rest.

However, in that case, I become the provider able to access anything and my users won’t necessarily trust me, and they’ll use E2EE to prevent me from accessing their data etc.

A VPS (Virtual Private Server) is a virtual machine.

A bare metal server is different thing, there I think it would be much harder, if not impossible for the provider to get to your data if you’re using LUKS.

Google it, it’s not something that can be done easily, but there are definitely ways how data or even keys can be accessed at runtime. If and how it can be done depends on many factors, and I’m not an expert on the topic, but most of these factors are entirely beyoned your control if you’re using a VPS.

You shouldn’t, because you can’t be a 100% sure that nobody will be able to access your data on a VPS, except if you’re using a secure E2EE method.

A VPS (Virtual Private Server) is a virtual machine.

Indeed, but some are provided with preinstalled OS, some not. That’s why I specified “VPS where the user remotely installs the OS”, which then allows them to enable LUKS, which then…

Google it

Well, I did for a couple of hours and only found that compromised providers might access your dedicated RAM, where they might then see the decrypted data that is being processed, for example files that are being updated during a sync. It is indeed a serious threat (and possibly the last) remaining when using a VPS where the user installs the OS (with LUKS, of course).

A bare metal server is different thing, there I think it would be much harder, if not impossible for the provider to get to your data if you’re using LUKS.

They can attack physical RAM with cooling techniques, but it is indeed very difficult. Or providers can use rigged BIOS or firmwares.


There is hope! ^^