Why is 23.0.1 so heavily delayed?

Hello all,

I am still on Nextcloud 22 and I wanted to wait for 23.0.1 to come out before upgrading. That maintenance release was initially targeted for Dec. 30th, was then moved to January 6th, then 20th. And now, on January 28th it still says “Jan 20th” on the git wikipedia page. But then, in the pull requests, there are new fixes poping up for milestone 23.0.1 every single day.

Does someone know what is going on here? Is the quality of the 23-line really that bad? or is the developers team moving with reduced capacity? I don’t get it…

Kind regards,
Martin

where would that discussion lead? You want devs to answer here - which would keep them from doing whatever is neccessary to get 23.0.1 out, finally.

So as good as I could understand your question it really doesn’t help in getting things done or speeded up.

I am glad that they decided to postpone the release… it means that there are still bugs to get solved… and all in all a postponed version would be better (due to less bugs) than one that was released only because someone once set some date…

Umm and… what’s your pressure to install a new version better yesterday than today?

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The fact that I am still on 22 shows that I am NOT installing new versions right away. But then again, Once there is a stabilized “First maintenance release” version I tend to upgrade in order to use new features and stay on top of things.
I just thought there would be some insight around here as to why that release specifically keeps being delayed further and schedules not being updated. If that’s not the case then I’m sorry for causing hickup.

Might be a stupid question, but i never been running my server for beta-run. I did try to use “update channel beta” a few weeks ago only to discover that there was no support for Discourse SSO app in the new 23.0.0 version. So that bricked for me (of course i did snapshot first).

Is it correct that the 23 version will show up in the normal “update channel: stable” first when 23.0.1 is released? So far i only see it if i choose Beta

It was asked if “someone know[s]” and maybe someone on this forum knows … maybe not. What is so bad about someone asking?
I assume there are “Dailys” or weekly meetings with some kind of a notification chain to the company management and marketing departing. Hence maybe marketing can shed some light. It’s not always necessary that devs lay down their work :wink:

No, but it helps to understand and plan ahead.
Transparent communication helps to reduce frustration which may arise when users are running into issues:

To make plans regarding upgrades, to solve issues like the above mentioned for example. People have their reasons and we don’t need to understand all of them. Sometimes it is easier to simply answer the question.

Knowing about serious issues with the next version could also help understanding, that admins should test NC23.01 more thoroughly before upgrade their productive systems or even wait for NC23.02.
You can simply make better decisions when you know stuff :wink: so I don’t blame him for asking.

Unfortunately I can’t provide an answer, as I am also just one of the curious guys.

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come on @Schmu you know exactly that we had those kind of discussions before on this forum… with always the same situation which stays more or less unchanged.

IF you are interested in getting deeper insights into problems, errors and glitches of recent softewareversions (or soon to be released ones) check out github where these kind of things are discussed (I’m too busy to follow every issue over there). As this is open source and is handled openly I don’t see any other neccessary “communication” beyond this. EVERYONE could look it up themself.

I’m afraid to let you know that I’ve read NC23.0.0 doesn’t support PHP8.1 - and hence no other version of NC23 won’t support it neither.
Which means: there usualy is no pressure to update a version (except for security reasons - which usually will be communjcated here on the forum as well) - except for the pressure you make yourself. Being here in the forum for some years now I can tell you (if you haven’t noticed yourself, yet): yes NC-marketing is good and makes you wanting the new features better yesterday than today. But in real life they usually work different from what I expected them to work or are still very buggy and can’t be used. Sometimes they seem to be abandoned as well after a while or on a looooooooooong hiatus (e.g. “social”). So I myself came up with the idea of updating to a new major version from xy.0.2 on - even if that would mean to wait another 2 or 3 months for the new features. Positive sideeffect is: most of the apps I’d use would have an update ready as well.

Anyways… to put it into a nutshell:

  • there usually is no pressure to update to new versions other than the pressure you’re making yourself (hint: all the guys who are NOT on win 11 already should ask themselves why if they are, on the other hand forcing new updates for other versions).
  • if someone wants to get something done they need to participate on the project (coding themselves or giving bucks or be of help elsewhere)
  • you can run a beta-version on a test-instance if you’d like to see if it would work probably or not
  • last but not least: take backups. Always.
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following this and another discussions this is really huge problem of the Nextcloud project - the is no sufficient information flaw from the Nextcloud GmbH to the community.

In general I appreciate new version released once the become ready and well tested - but this should be managed well and previously made announcement should be fulfilled until there is a really good reason.

this definitely not a good way to manage customers expectations.

There are lot of ways to communicate road maps and release date with their own drawbacks including the worst case “no communication” as happened with previous release - which introduced cool features like backup and useless things like AiO container, while at the same time really heavy major issue related to the sync functionality was ignored many days long…

In terms of customer relations Nextcloud GmbH already acts exactly like Microsoft: good marketing and unready software - if this is a chosen direction, they are on the good way. I really hope this will change!

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I wonder why is that useless in your opinion? :thinking:

me too!!! one of the best inventions!

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Hi,
I would like to take this discussion as an opportunity to ask, if there is a convenient way to check if installed apps are compatible with a new major server version.
It seems, that the recommendation is to deactivate apps before upgrading.
But is there a way to check it beforehand?
Apart from lurking in the forums for bug reports…

Thanks,
Florian

sure… you cahnce to releasechannel beta and wait until the new majorversion comes up. then you’d check if there’s any app not compatible with the new version at the same place…

this is more like a philosophical matter, I guess… Are users that use something for free considered being real custumers or not? I’d call them “users”. Since they didn’t bought something.

anyways:

Meaning there has been a lot of discussion about this point already. Right? So why again and again discuss the same point over and over again?

It’s out now btw! :slight_smile:

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I could have it installed since several days, already (since Friday, I guess) - but I wasn’t sure if it was officially released so I kept my mouth shut about it :slight_smile:

NB - “could have” means: i decided against installing it now to my productive system… :wink:

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updated my 23.0.0 to 23.0.1 today no issues! very smooth process

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I only got it via beta channel on my test instance. And it is also not yet offered on the official download page and on the GitHub release page. But wget https://download.nextcloud.com/server/releases/latest.zip already downloads 23.0.1. I think it’s save to say that this is the official release. :slight_smile:

Btw… Same goes for 22.2.4 for those who don’t want to upgrade to 23 yet… although those are probably rather a minority in this thread :wink:

Anyways… Happy upgrading! :slight_smile:

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This was odd… I am on 22.2.3 and suddenly saw a notification for 22.2.4. I though i just check for os updates before i do the update and it found some redis 5.3.6+4.3.0-1 update. I did the update and needed an reboot. Now the nextcloud webupdater still have the notification for the 22.2.4… but it is gone under STABLE channel.

If i go beta it finds 22.2.4 RC3

Where did the 22.2.4 under STABLE channel go? :-/

this is a major issue in this project - customer are divided in two categories - paying customers and free. Nothing is wrong to do so if you clear define your statement: your customer don’t count a penny until you buy a contract

take a look at the log4j guy - he works 22h/day to fix a problem for a project he was never paid for:

Momentan arbeitet Volkan Yazici 22 Stunden pro Tag – ohne dafür nur einen einzigen Cent zu sehen.

Source: https://www.heise.de/hintergrund/Nach-Log4j-Warum-Open-Source-Projekte-nachhaltig-werden-muessen-6298120.html

definitely nothing one could expect from nobody but this shows the difference between people who trust and believe in open source and their project and other who only use this as marketing label!

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to make that perfectly clear: it was only MY personal opinion. I have no connections to NC.

And I think you’re wrong for most of the collaborators there and here harm by claiming they wouldn’t trust and believe in what they do.

there’s several proof that NC DOES things for their community users (this has been discussed as well here up and down)!

come on @wwe whats up with you? are you in anti-mood today? :wink:

could we please end this discussion now?

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While I agree with you that communication can certainly always be improved, I think you’re exaggerating here. And I simpley don’t belive that the developers or the Nextcloud GmbH don’t care about their customers or users or whatever you want to call people who use their product for free or even earn money with it, without ever contributing back in any meaningful way. A product which is btw. completely open source and can be used, modified and redistributed without any restrictions.

Also, the comparison with Log4J does not fit here, because If anyone, it’s the people that are using
a product for free or even build a business around it, whithout contributing back, that do not care. These people and especially the ones that only come here to complain (I know that you are not one of them) are not much better, than all these companies that use Log4J in their commercial products, and never gave back a cent to the developer or the Apache Foundation.

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