# Remaining issues in NC 28.0.3 RC2 **URL:** \ **Category:** ℹ️ Support\ **Tags:** nc28\ **Created:** [February 24, 2024, 1:36pm UTC](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289 "2024-02-24T13:36:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tflidd](https://help.nextcloud.com/letter_avatar/tflidd/32/5_5575768a8748004e209b776fc1b2916d.png) [@tflidd](https://help.nextcloud.com/u/tflidd)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2024, 4:02pm UTC](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289/21 "2024-02-25T16:02:44Z")
I have split this topic, since it’s going a bit beyond the initial post. > [@plinss](#): > > This is a forum run by that company, which the company invites users to contribute to. As such this forum is seen by the community as an official, and proper way to communicate with the company. It is mainly a tool that community users can communicate with each other. They put some announcements here. The handling of issues, requests for new features etc. and things that require changes of code, go all through github. Also for the official documentation, there is a github repo. Check here on the web site, last section about the support options: > **[Support - Nextcloud](https://nextcloud.com/support/)** and here for setup issues where you can get help in the forum vs. reporting actual bugs: [https://docs.nextcloud.com/server/stable/admin\_manual/issues/general\_troubleshooting.html](https://docs.nextcloud.com/server/stable/admin_manual/issues/general_troubleshooting.html) > [@plinss](#): > > But it’s not acceptable to tell users, who have already taken time out of their day to report a problem, to go file those issues themselves in addition to the reports they already made. That behavior really is saying ‘Please go away’. Yes it can sound like it. In a few cases, where I could reproduce the problem, I have already forwarded a request when I was able to reproduce the issue myself. I’m not employed by Nextcloud, so it’s mainly issues I care about myself. Reproducing a problem is essential, so it is important to know the setup of the person that is reporting the issue, and even when the report seems to be complete, there can be additional questions only the original poster can respond to. > [@plinss](#): > > To all the paid Nextcloud developers here They are hopefully working on the code, so they are rarely on the forum. Most of the moderators are just community users, therefore “we” say, report the issue to github where people read the issue that were working on this piece of code. ---
**Author:** ![bb77](https://help.nextcloud.com/letter_avatar/bb77/32/5_5575768a8748004e209b776fc1b2916d.png) [@bb77](https://help.nextcloud.com/u/bb77)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2024, 5:13pm UTC](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289/22 "2024-02-25T17:13:07Z")
> [@plinss](#): > > That’s how many small, volunteer driven, open source projects work, but it 's not the way they **must** work. Why? Because you say so? Why don’t you start your own project? It’s all open source, fork the repos, hire a few developers, and someone to spend all day on the forums, sorting out posts that should be opened as issues on GitHub. > [@plinss](#): > > To all the paid Nextcloud developers here, please ask yourself why you are participating in this forum. Are you here to help users and improve your product? Or are you here to alienate and gaslight your users? None of them was active in this thread. > [@plinss](#): > > But it’s not acceptable to tell users, who have already taken time out of their day to report a problem, to go file those issues themselves in addition to the reports they already made. Of course it’s acceptable. The alternative would be not to answer you at all. > [@plinss](#): > > That behavior really is saying ‘Please go away’. That’s your interpration, and it’s wrong. > [@plinss](#): > > If a user reports a problem here and you actually want to help, and there isn’t an existing GitHub issue, go file one yourself, that’s part of your job as a developer. If you need more information, point the reporting user to the issue you just created and ask then to contribute more there. Well, that’s your opinion, and you’re allowed to have it. But there is no law that says that a developer of an open source project, or the company behind it, has to participate in the forums, or even run a forum, or interact in any other way with the users of the community edition of their product. Sometimes they do, but you have no right or entitlement to have anyone read your posts, help you solve problems, or file issues for you. That being said, I don’t get the impression that the Nextcloud developers don’t care about their users, quite the opposite in fact, but there are only 24 hours in a day and full-time developers cost a lot of money. So it should be in your own interest that they spend their time on development rather than comforting users in the forums and doing support work. ---
**Author:** ![spyro](https://help.nextcloud.com/letter_avatar/spyro/32/5_5575768a8748004e209b776fc1b2916d.png) [@spyro](https://help.nextcloud.com/u/spyro)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2024, 6:37pm UTC](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289/23 "2024-02-25T18:37:47Z")
I used to work for a company that uses and does FOSS dev work. We were _always_ encouraged to look at what issues users brought up online, and not just via the but reporting systems. Why else have them? If the devs dont read them, then at least clearly state that these are purely user support forums only… ---
**Author:** ![bb77](https://help.nextcloud.com/letter_avatar/bb77/32/5_5575768a8748004e209b776fc1b2916d.png) [@bb77](https://help.nextcloud.com/u/bb77)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2024, 6:58pm UTC](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289/24 "2024-02-25T18:58:59Z")
> [@spyro](#): > > I used to work for a company that uses and does FOSS dev work. We were _always_ encouraged to look at what issues users brought up online, and not just via the but reporting systems. And how do you know that’s not the case here? The developers are here from time to time, but with the amount of questions here, and the amount of open issues on GitHub, it’s not possible for them to participate in every single thread. However, that wasn’t my point, and at the end of the day it’s up to each company how they want to handle it. The deal for you as a user is simple: You get the product and a certain amount of community support and documentation for free. If you need induvidual assistance and support, you have to pay for it through an enterprise subscription. This is a very common business model for many companies offering products based on OSS. How individual companies handle this in detail, again, is up to them. There are no obligations, not even that they give the product away for free. The only thing they are obliged to do is to release the source code within the the terms of the licences they use. So statements like @plinss’s, which imply that companies and the developers they employ have an obligation to the community, are, in my opinion, completely out of place. The only obligation they have is to the customers who bought a subscription or a support contract, and to the open source licences they use. > [@spyro](#): > > Why else have them? If the devs dont read them, then at least clearly state that these are purely user support forums only… Well yes, that’s what they are essentially: [General troubleshooting — Nextcloud latest Administration Manual latest documentation](https://docs.nextcloud.com/server/stable/admin_manual/issues/general_troubleshooting.html) ---
**Author:** ![coyotenq](https://help.nextcloud.com/user_avatar/help.nextcloud.com/coyotenq/32/8609_2.png) [@coyotenq](https://help.nextcloud.com/u/coyotenq)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 2:11pm UTC](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289/25 "2024-02-26T14:11:53Z")
Hi ppl! This is simplest than it looks. The whole OSS basics tell us that you can have an enterprise product at no cost, and, in exchange, you can provide feedback to help improve the project. The devs have not any kind of obligation to provide support. That’s why there is a community behind, collaborating to help general users to solve or report issues. Not all users have the skills to understand how the whole product works, and it’s okay. Other ones (like in my case) have skills that complements the project. So, support often come from people that is not active part in the develop, but try to collaborate with the project. And devs, for sure, receive feedback “filtered” to not make they loose time in a forum explaining things that, for low level users, have no sense. This is how any of this ecosystems works. So, please, save the useless critical comments, and focus in collaborate. It’s a win-win formula. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![spyro](https://help.nextcloud.com/letter_avatar/spyro/32/5_5575768a8748004e209b776fc1b2916d.png) [@spyro](https://help.nextcloud.com/u/spyro)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2024, 3:24pm UTC](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289/27 "2024-11-26T15:24:05Z")
I see the truth gets suppressed because it’s inconvenient… ---
**Author:** ![bb77](https://help.nextcloud.com/letter_avatar/bb77/32/5_5575768a8748004e209b776fc1b2916d.png) [@bb77](https://help.nextcloud.com/u/bb77)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2024, 4:34pm UTC](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289/28 "2024-11-26T16:34:25Z")
First of all, I’m not to one who reported your post, but I think the way the discussion in this thread has been going, it has become kind of pointless to continue it anyway. Also, you seem to be unhappy with Nextcloud in so many fundamental ways, which realistically are not going to change radically overnight, if at all, that I have a feeling it may just not be the right product for you, which is fine and can happen even with commercial products 🤷 ---
**Author:** ![brainsys](https://help.nextcloud.com/letter_avatar/brainsys/32/5_5575768a8748004e209b776fc1b2916d.png) [@brainsys](https://help.nextcloud.com/u/brainsys)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2024, 8:24pm UTC](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289/29 "2024-11-26T20:24:20Z")
I’ve not commented on NC’s strategy before and maybe I am with the wrong product. But, as ever, it’s usually easier to stick with what you have got than migrate. Am i one of the silent majority or out on my own? I started with ownCloud as it fitted perfectly my need for a shared distributed database. I followed the devs to NC as that seemed to be the safest route. I use Debian servers because stability and what others call LTS is core to the what I expect of a server os. That extends to databases. That works with mariadb and NFS. Seen but not heard. Every 4 weeks I now have to upgrade NC and re-patch a long ongoing unfixed bug while ignoring others. Every 8 months or so I have to upgrade to a new version which may not be compatible with the standard os php setup requiring further work. For this I get a plethora of apps which I rarely use because of incompatabilities across different architectures, screen resolutions etc. I’m not bitching because I have all this for free and it works, despite the above, for me. So I thank the devs for their work. However, they need to be aware of the pain we go through to stay with them. Do they really want us to leave? ---
**Author:** ![bb77](https://help.nextcloud.com/letter_avatar/bb77/32/5_5575768a8748004e209b776fc1b2916d.png) [@bb77](https://help.nextcloud.com/u/bb77)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 6:24am UTC](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289/30 "2024-11-27T06:24:50Z")
> [@brainsys](#): > > I use Debian servers because stability and what others call LTS is core to the what I expect of a server os. That extends to databases. That works with mariadb and NFS. Seen but not heard. PHP and database versions shipped with the current Debian stable are usually compatible with the current Nextcloud versions. However, when the current Debian stable becomes old-stable, you should upgrade to the next stable version in a timely manner. And just in case the timing doesn’t quite work out, and yes, I know I’m not allowed to say out loud what I’m about to say, but I’m doing it anyway… There are official [MariaDB Server Repositories](https://mariadb.org/download/?t=repo-config&d=Debian+12+%22Bookworm%22&v=10.11&r_m=mva) for Debian and there is [deb.sury.org.](https://sury.org/) 😉 > [@brainsys](#): > > Every 8 months or so I have to upgrade to a new version which may not be compatible with the standard os php setup requiring further work. > > I’m not bitching because I have all this for free and it works, despite the above, for me. So I thank the devs for their work. However, they need to be aware of the pain we go through to stay with them. So why not just use Nextcloud-AIO then? That way others will go through that ‘pain’ for you, and you can update everything with literally just three clicks, without having to worry about all the dependencies. ---
**Author:** ![tflidd](https://help.nextcloud.com/letter_avatar/tflidd/32/5_5575768a8748004e209b776fc1b2916d.png) [@tflidd](https://help.nextcloud.com/u/tflidd)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 1:21pm UTC](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289/31 "2024-11-27T13:21:19Z")
> [@brainsys](#): > > Every 4 weeks I now have to upgrade NC and re-patch a long ongoing unfixed bug while ignoring others. Every 8 months or so I have to upgrade to a new version which may not be compatible with the standard os php setup requiring further work. Doing an update every 4 weeks, that is part of managing a server, you should update the main system packages on a regular basis as well. This should not be very complicated. With applying manual patches is not the case. It would be great in such statements, to link to your individual issue, perhaps there are people to help you on getting that fixed. On the major release frequency, we had a few discussion, we shouldn’t start this here again. Regarding standard packages, Nextcloud is a use case where the default configuration does not come with the best performance. And it requires a bit of tuning of different caching mechanism. But these settings depend on your environment, installed apps, number of users, available RAM, … for the already mentioned AIO, the settings were done that it fits most setups with a few users. ---
**Author:** ![brainsys](https://help.nextcloud.com/letter_avatar/brainsys/32/5_5575768a8748004e209b776fc1b2916d.png) [@brainsys](https://help.nextcloud.com/u/brainsys)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 2:20pm UTC](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289/32 "2024-11-27T14:20:11Z")
It’s ok I’ll pretend you never said it. Without sury I wouldn’t be here and my update cycle is weekly unless there is a nasty cve about. Thank you for telling me how to run my servers but you don’t and can’t know what the balance and timing goes into judging when to upgrade. I’ve been a SysAdmin for 30 years so I know how to dig myself out of most holes. But amongst all my applications NC stands out as negating resilience, stability and ease of support of a core product in return for speedy development. A choice you make and are entitled to make. I account for it and manage it and did you not notice the ‘thank you’ for it? But, and here is sadly, a criticism. I have noticed an air of unnecessary condensation with feedback that isn’t in line with your current mission. Lets leave it there please. I’ve said my bit. Ignore it or take note - your choice. ---
**Author:** ![hairydog](https://help.nextcloud.com/letter_avatar/hairydog/32/5_5575768a8748004e209b776fc1b2916d.png) [@hairydog](https://help.nextcloud.com/u/hairydog)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 4:04pm UTC](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289/33 "2024-11-27T16:04:46Z")
I’d plnnedto ignore this thread because NC developers have consistently rejected this sort of feedback, but the arrogance of that response can’t go unremarked. I have also managed servers for more decades than I like to recall, right back to the days of reading punched cards where the typewriter ribbon had dried out. It seems that Nextcloud takes ‘shiny, new’ as the holy grail, forgetting that most people want reliable consistency with bugs fixed before adding gizmos. They want software running on LTS platforms to run for as long as the platform is still in support. It has to be said that Owncloud devs go too far the other way. Nevertheless, if there was a safe way to migrate fron NC to OC, I’d take it. ---
**Author:** ![bb77](https://help.nextcloud.com/letter_avatar/bb77/32/5_5575768a8748004e209b776fc1b2916d.png) [@bb77](https://help.nextcloud.com/u/bb77)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 5:21pm UTC](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289/34 "2024-11-27T17:21:15Z")
I can understand that people want to take full advantage of the LTS period of their distribution, and I’m a big fan of Debian and use it almost exclusively on my servers. However, I also think that especially with internet facing services and their dependencies, in this case PHP, these 4-5 and in some cases even up to 10 year LTS periods are simply not practical anymore. Nextloud typically supports the PHP versions shipped with the latest LTS Ubuntu release, which means you will need to update PHP to a new major release about every two years, which I think is reasonable. And no, the mere fact that something has been done a certain way for 30 years is not a good enough reason for me to keep doing it for another 30 years. Imagine if the people who worked on typewriters 30 years ago had made the same argument, and computers had never been introduced into their workplaces, you probably wouldn’t have had a career as a sysadmin 😉 ---
**Author:** ![spyro](https://help.nextcloud.com/letter_avatar/spyro/32/5_5575768a8748004e209b776fc1b2916d.png) [@spyro](https://help.nextcloud.com/u/spyro)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 7:03pm UTC](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289/35 "2024-11-27T19:03:54Z")
My biggest issue with NC is that “ooh, shiny” takes precedence over fixing core deficiencies. Such as the file browser having dangerous semantics on folder moves, ones that even M$ don’t have. Things like sync client configurability (I can’t find any way to set the max upload chunk size on Android, for example). This is _basic_ stuff that just doesn’t work, and from searching the archives, hasn’t been fixed in years. (I note that I found one comment suggesting this is “all being reworked” in NC31, but I’ve heard that before, so I’m not holding my breath. ---
**Author:** ![spyro](https://help.nextcloud.com/letter_avatar/spyro/32/5_5575768a8748004e209b776fc1b2916d.png) [@spyro](https://help.nextcloud.com/u/spyro)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 7:06pm UTC](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289/36 "2024-11-27T19:06:29Z")
> [@bb77](#): > > So why not just use Nextcloud-AIO then? That way others will go through that ‘pain’ for you, and you can update everything with literally just three clicks, without having to worry about all the dependencies. Believe it or not… Not every sysadmin wants a bloated container image with someone-elses-build of half an OS in it. Some of us want to use the packaged versions of software that came with the OS we are choosing to install, and which are updated by the OS. ---
**Author:** ![hairydog](https://help.nextcloud.com/letter_avatar/hairydog/32/5_5575768a8748004e209b776fc1b2916d.png) [@hairydog](https://help.nextcloud.com/u/hairydog)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 7:08pm UTC](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289/37 "2024-11-27T19:08:59Z")
Nextcloud does not support Debian LTS releases, which grown-up servers tend to stick to. As for ten years, you’re unlikely to get two years from NC before the ‘new shiny’ breaks it again. ---
**Author:** ![Paradox551](https://help.nextcloud.com/user_avatar/help.nextcloud.com/paradox551/32/66929_2.png) [@Paradox551](https://help.nextcloud.com/u/Paradox551)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 7:40pm UTC](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289/38 "2024-11-27T19:40:42Z")
Ummm yes, yes it does. Currently on Debian 12 with several nextcloud instances including high performance backends and it runs flawlessly. ---
**Author:** ![SmallOne](https://help.nextcloud.com/user_avatar/help.nextcloud.com/smallone/32/5326_2.png) [@SmallOne](https://help.nextcloud.com/u/SmallOne)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 7:41pm UTC](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289/39 "2024-11-27T19:41:24Z")
For the last 10 years i have always used Debian stable with addons. And you can buy a license to get an LTS release of Nextcloud where you dont get the new shiny things. This discussion should be on tickets you want to have fixed and not complain here anyway. That is how things actually gets fixed. ---
**Author:** ![SmallOne](https://help.nextcloud.com/user_avatar/help.nextcloud.com/smallone/32/5326_2.png) [@SmallOne](https://help.nextcloud.com/u/SmallOne)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 7:43pm UTC](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289/40 "2024-11-27T19:43:19Z")
Debian 12 is now a stable release. That will become an LTS release in 2026 current LTS is 11. ---
**Author:** ![Paradox551](https://help.nextcloud.com/user_avatar/help.nextcloud.com/paradox551/32/66929_2.png) [@Paradox551](https://help.nextcloud.com/u/Paradox551)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2024, 7:43pm UTC](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289/41 "2024-11-27T19:43:44Z")
Ah. To be fair I don’t use the stock database anyway. I use postgresql 17. [Previous page](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289.md?page=1) [Next page](https://help.nextcloud.com/t/remaining-issues-in-nc-28-0-3-rc2/183289.md?page=3)