Ok, I just read up on the internal chat - your tweet was, well, not related and not constructive or helpful. You werenât blocked as far as I understand, we just hid that tweet. Might be that twitter automatically reacted by blocking you, I donât know, but that wasnât our intention. Sorry for that.
Only a moment.
I do think that one can be divided about the engagement with a Saudi Arabian company.
At this point, a distinction must certainly be made between economic approaches and moral concerns. At the same time, with Nextcloud I also combine approaches to preserving certain freedoms and thus also basic rights (protection of my data from access by third parties, etc.).
In this respect, the type of reaction to a perhaps âcriticalâ voice should sometimes be considered.
Many greetings
Django43
Does this apply equally to men AND women?
Unless they are its one of many reasons why NextCloud should not taint its brand with this association.
Yes, that applies equally to men and women.
I did check the website. I could see only men. Should I have looked harder?
But that is not a criteria for the (Best Place to Work) award!
Also, the employees care about benefits, work/life balance, professional environment, sense of purpose, recognition, capability development, and fairness. Putting their image on the website is a minor thing.
China is much more dangerous place to give business to yet we all do.
Saudi Arabia is progressive, women drive cars.
It has become increasingly obvious since around NC18 that NC is moving to become just another amoral faceless corporation and away from its roots.
This has now clearly crossed the line - obviously with open source software you have no control over who will use it or for what purposes, but to actually âpartnerâ with someone implies a degree of approval for what they are involved in, and also implies a willingness to assist them.
Possibly it is time for another fork⌠OwnCloud -> NextCloud -> OurCloud which would be committed to the FOSS principles but also stand outside any corporate control and be focused on meeting the needs of small and non-profit entities rather than morphing into "Enterprise"ware.
It has become increasingly obvious since around NC18 that NC is moving to become just another amoral faceless corporatio
That is a statement without any arguments and just a opinion. Please use facts and donât start ranting.
Possibly it is time for another fork
Feel free to do whatever you want. The license allows you to do so.
ROFL
@rakekniven of course it is an opinion, that should be obvious. It is my opinion and that is a fact whether you like it or not. It is also my opinion that NC is a pretty useful bit of software - I hope you are not being selective about what opinions you are allowing to be expressed. An opinion you donât like is a rant, and an opinion you approve of is useful comment perhaps?
Since you are described as a âLeader/Adminâ how about addressing the concerns that have been raised here. The failure to effectively do so has contributed to my opinion of where NC is headed.
Our contracts include clauses that forbid the use of our software in surveillance or other unethical use cases, something recommended to us by a representative from a human rights organization.
If I was involved in supporting an unpleasant and murderous regime I donât think I would be too troubled by what it said in my partner contract with you. Iâd take the kudos that your support for my activities and my clients activities gave - small beer probably but every little helps - and doubt that youâd actually do anything effective about it. After all Iâd just deny any (direct) involvement with your proscribed unethical activities in the the contract and leave you to prove it or Iâd sue you for defamation.
Simply hiding behind a paper fig leaf is not good enough - you (NC corporate) need to accept some responsibility and have the strength to defend or change your decisions when challenged.
Itâs ok not to agree, but as far as the reaction of Nextcloud GmbH concerning this cooperation with a dictatorship goes, I am actually willing to spread the voice.
What about the Mission and Principles? Did you just create them for the community and not the enterprise?
And I know it might seem that my activism is a waste of time but Iâm having a serious problem here.
i use Nextcloud since it was forked, put a lot of time and love into a cloud collective mainly based on Nextcloud with several hundred users and a lot of groups, trying to raise money for the Nextcloud ecosystem through it. I give Webinars on the usage Nextcloud and Iâm trying to be helpful concerning bugs and the translation.
And this move of hooking up with a dictatorship seriously hurt me.
As Nextcloud GmbH obviously doesnât see human lives and rights as important pillars of their strategy, I want to warn others to get involved.
You might have to delete some posts in the future in order to hide this bloody business relationship.
Saudi Arabia is progressive, women drive cars.
Believe it or not, women have more âEmployee Benefitsâ than men.
Yes, they donât need to drive cars, they are driven by their owners.
Actually, women having more Employee Benefits than men has nothing to do with driving.
btw, women drive cars since 2018.
Hi, I came across this announcement and just as other hundreds of people, it called my attention. I would like to understand better the concrete aspects at stake. How Tamkeen Technologies became a partner? Why Nextcloud GmbH considers so important this partnership? Where the Nextcloud community can read the details about it?
Thanks in advance.
I also think that such a politicly and ethically critical partnership shouldnât be just announced from a marketing perspective but in deep explained in detail. What is the partnership about? Are there some really effective lines drawn in the contract - and how are they monitored and controlled? What does Nextcloud GmbH says to the critic about Tamkeen and the Saudi Government?
And a question just because I am curious about it: Havenât you seen that discussion come? Why arenât you prepared?
And a question just because I am curious about it: Havenât you seen that discussion come? Why arenât you prepared?
Personally, I wouldnât blame anyone for not being prepared, because it was not expected from âIT professionalsâ to post hate speech, or to tell Nextcloud what to do!
I also wouldnât blame anyone therefor â I am just curious, because being an educated person in Europe means to be aware of political stuff and human rights related stuff â so as a former campaigner and still active in strategic communication I am curious about that as I have written.
the only advice (or suggest) I can offer here is: would you guys please calm down, step aside, take a deep breath and then try to re-think from that new perspective about what has been said. and what not.
Usually ppl in Europe tend to think they are super-informed about all ongoings in every part of the world. Itâs been like that for dozens of years already.
I, myself, was like the same. Until I visited some of those countries that has been on focus myself and learned that reality always looked a bit different from what I thought it was (remember: I thought myself being pretty well-informed and interested in those things).
So the questions that arise here are:
- how big is Tamkeen in reality? Are they just planning to be as important as they state on their website? Are they really working with Saudi-arabian govât (and if yes, with which parts?) or is that just their outlook on the goals they wanna reach until 2030? - Maybe itâs just a small provider - as there are hundreds all over the world (even in Europe) with a bright marketing? Is there someone here being able to tell all of that?
- has someone here on the forum seen any contract from NC GmbH? They apparently claim that their contracts would take care about several and certain issues like human rights violations or
the use of our software in surveillance or other unethical use cases
etc. So why doubting their claims?
- has anyone of those very emotional critiques here put in thought that Saudi-Arabia isnât just ONLY their governement but in briad majority just normal ppl? Meaning⌠why not trying to grant those guys a stable access to a apparently trustworthy (as trustworthy as those
- CMMI Level 3 certified
- TMMI Level 3 certified
- Level 3 Data Center service provider
- Certified in ISO for:
- Process quality
- Business continuity
- Security
- Service management
ISO-certifications can be) company? Ppl could use NC and itâs benefits in regard of owning your own data and encrypted communictaions for opposing the royal regime that runs Saudi-Arabia?
So all in all⌠Itâs understandable that some of our forum-members seem to care (aka freak) about the sheer headline that NC collaborates with a company from Saudi-Arabia⌠But it needs a closer look⌠a look behind the scenes, an inside-look to being able to find out about what it means in reality.
I am not able providing these insights here. But maybe @Mohammed is?
So please ⌠donât always judge a book by itâs cover but by itâs content. SInce sometimes the contents seem to be different from what the cover might be implying.
My 2cts here.
Thanks for reading.
âmurderous regime of Saudi-Arabiaâ is no âhate speechâ but a well known fact, so please donât distort the facts.